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possibly worth a read!!!! ( dog food!
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cumbernauld Dog Forums Forum Index -> Feeding & Nutrition
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Susan
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Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Moodiesburn

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read all this, wow!

Way back at page two or three, this thread inspired me to start some of my own research into the RAW/BARF diet and also into the claims of regular pet food, both dry and wet. Very interesting.

I have a question for the RAW feeders...why raw and not cooked? My research showed three main areas of concern with the diet, which I posted before. The first one, optimum nutrition not being achieved, well it is clear that the people here who feed RAW take a huge amount of care to make sure that their dog is getting the correct rations, so no issue there. The second about problems caused by bones - even raw bones,well think we will have to agree to differ there, as this still concerns me. But the main thing for me, the possibility of harmful bacteria or other 'baddies' in the raw meat - well this could be totally eliminated by cooking it first.

Do you RAW feeders feel that it is not the case that there is any danger with the meat itself being raw, and so don't cook it for that reason, or would you consider cooking it first to rule out completely this kind of issue? (sorry, I know this has been touched on before, but I just wondered if anyone considered cooking the meat)

Thanks!
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kirsty
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Joined: 30 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose that I am trying to stick as closely to the natural diet of a dog in the wild - no cooked meat there.
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Elaine
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Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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Location: STIRLINGSHIRE

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we are thinking wild dogs scavenging they would eat rotten already dead meat, root veg cause through hunger they'd be forced to forage, our dogs even on raw meat from us are pampered lol.
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kirsty
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too true, Mine certainly are pampered
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Susan
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Location: Moodiesburn

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, thanks guys!

Just wanted to say, I am not trying to be argumentative here, I am just interested, I am not against the RAW principles, I just have questions about it and I know you guys have done a lot more research than I have!

What you said Elaine made sense, but then I thought..well. just because they would forage and eat rotten food in the wild, does that mean that its the 'best' diet for them? I am thinking of horses (again, lol) In the wild they would really only eat grass, but we feed all sorts of things, to give them extra vitamins and minerals, to allow us to work them harder, to calm them down, to hype them up. Maybe that's wrong, but I know that say, a competition horse, couldn't perform on just grass, which is what nature intended. (but of course nature did not intend that horse to be going 3 day eventing, so I have probably used a bad comparison!)

In the wild, (and are there any wild dogs..not wolves, I mean are dingo's or coyotes classed as dogs?) surely many animals die from eating like this? I don't know if because the dog's ancestors ate like this it automatically means that it is the best thing. (It might be the best thing...I just don't know how I feel about the argument about this is why its the best thing if that makes sense!) I think probably dogs lived on the peripheries of human communities, and would probably eat whatever they could scavenge. I know that dog food companies exist for one reason, and one reason only, to make a profit for shareholders, just like any other company, as you guys have mentioned. That doesn't mean though that they don' t involve nutritionists and scientists, and do huge amounts of research, as their profit depends on people buying their food and on it NOT making dogs ill.

Tell me if I am annoying you and I will shut up! I am a typical liberal who can not even agree with myself half the time!

Oh, as a wee aside..when we got the family Yorkie, nearly 16 years ago now, and from a good breeder, they told us to feed him on table scraps and not make him 'fussy' as that was what all their dogs were on!
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Isabel
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Joined: 22 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi susan
It is good to put your opinion forward and you have put it in a nice manner which is the important thing. The way i see it is that is is probably similar to humans, we would do much better if we were eating the same foods as the animals we have evolved from, primates. There are many tribal communities around the world who do eat like this, lot of raw vegetation and even raw meat ( Shocked ), there incidence of many of the diseases we see are much lower as alot of our problems are caused by diet. I'm not saying that commercial dog food is bad but i think that natural food as for us is probably better. But each to there own, everyone in the club cares for their dogs alot and it is always good to debate stuff Laughing Laughing
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Elaine
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God I can imagine feeding my 2 table scraps, I'd need to make 4 meals instead of 2 lol
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kirsty
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Susan, one of the reasons I took my dogs off of pet food was one of them was scratching constantly and when I researched reasons for this one of the biggest contributory factors in pet allergies is Grain. Dogs digestive systems are just not designed to cope with grains.

Most dog foods use grains as a filler.

I then put my dog onto James well beloved which is supposed to be the best food for allergies, but my dog still scratched.

I took them off pet food and started feeding them boiled meat from Grayshill. This was a really cheap way to feed the dogs and Dodge stopped scratching within a few weeks.

What concerned me was this was a knackers yard and the meat was not fit for human consumption.

I now feed from Landywoods foods the animals are deemed fit for human consumption.

I have been trying to get my cat on to a raw food diet and when I started looking at nutrition for cats, there needs are more complex than dogs, it goes into a great detail about the nutritional benefits of raw rather than cooked meats - so if raw is better for the cats, it has to be better for the dogs I figure.

and again I fancy the back to nature approach. Wish I could apply it to myself. Funny I would shove a big mac and chips down my own throats but would never contaminate my boys with that sh..t Shocked
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Isabel
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Joined: 22 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny you say that kirsty cos I think I was eating a big mac at the time when i was telling my friend that i was going to feed doogle raw food cos processed food isn't as good, she was nearly doubled over with laughter cos i am quite partial to a bit of the old processed food, especially sweeties, but i would never feed junk to doogle. It's funny really cos i think most people are more concerned about there dogs diet than their own Laughing
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Susan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aww, thanks Isabel...I like the idea of the food being 'natural' - totally with you guys there, if additives and preservatives aren't good for us, then I don't see them being much use to the dogs either!

Kirsty, I have been reading about Dodge's scratching and how taking out any processed food just absolutely stopped this. Very interesting! I don't think that anyone could ever suggest that this is not the best thing for him, I think that I am pretty much convinced that nutritionally there is no problem with this way of feeding. I'm still wavering on the bones and the bacteria!

Elaine, ha, I know! I don't think even Ben the Yorkie would have went long on what our family leave at the table! Incidentally, he was the fussiest dog we have ever known, eating wise, and literally would not eat for days at a time if he didn't like what you put down. As he got older and a bit frailer (he is 16 now) the vet advised we change him to just cooked chicken, pasta and grilled veg, as he was overweight and this was affecting his existing medical condition, poor wee chap. He LOVED this, but lost no weight, and is now on the Hill's Diet food, and has lost loads and is back at peak size. It has helped his breathing/windpipe enormously. He detests the food though, and I think the fact he has lost weight is more that he is not eating than the food being particularly helpful!

Ha..I am on Weightwatchers just now..you're so right, if I thought as much about what I shovelled down my own throat I wouldn't be on the big push to slim into the Christmas dress!! lol!
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Lindy
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Susan the issue of parasites in the dopgs RAW feed is taken away as a lot of us use Landywood foods and they sell DEFRA passed meats which mean it is fit for HUMAN consumption therefore it will be safe for the dogs, also it comes frozen which kills bacteria/parasites and I and the others as far as I know defrost what we need in covered conatiners or the fridge overnight so nothing can get onto it, just like defrosting the chicken forthe tea that night. The bones thing is an interesting one as before I RAW fed I worried about that until i seen Dora and Lizzy crunch their way through a chicken wing, as long as you don't cook them they are soft and digestible but I would say that how much bone you can feed depends on the size of the dog, my two really only get the chicken with bone a couple of times a week so they don't get constipated and they get carrots once or twice a week and yogurt usually the lick the lid of mione and get the carton to lick most days and cod liver oil twice a week so they get plenty of help to keep their bowles in good order.
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John Thomson
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of bugs and parasites, freezing kills off a lot of them and the raw I feed is fit for human consumption.

Remember a dogs digestive system is far better at handling bugs etc than ours. That is why they can eat poo etc without getting ill.

I feed mine raw chicken backs from the local fishmonger ( the leftover bit after they strip off the breasts and legs) this is human food from a human shop..........my dogs eat it raw and love it, I think if I tried raw chicken .........I may end up ill. Wink
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