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Do you think that Hitting your dog is Animal Cruelty? |
Yes |
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56% |
[ 13 ] |
No |
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43% |
[ 10 ] |
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Total Votes : 23 |
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Nicola Guest
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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carol wrote: |
I don't think hitting your dog is productive.
Why would you hit a dog?
To get it to do what it is told?
or
to stop doing something you don't want?
I have 10 dogs in my home. I have no need to hit or throw any of them on their back or to shout at them.
The way I look at it is if my dog is doing something I dislike, the problem stems from me! Im the one who is training him and I must recognize, prevent and avoid situations that lead to my dog doing something or getting himself into a situation I dislike.
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Well done, Carol. I hold my hands up to you.
If someone has a dog from a puppy, and they end up with undesirable behaviours when they're older, then I believe it's the owners fault, not the dogs. 99% of behavioural problems is down to the owners, imo. |
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Nicola Guest
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Cassandra wrote: |
It all comes back down to breeds...individual dogs and the handlers.
Laura has already posted about how normal pack mentality isn't applicable to staffies because of their breeds purpose.
Different breeds require different handling, you cannot possibly use the same techniques with ALL breeds of dog.I think that there needs to be an establishment of what people constitute as 'hitting'.
Perhaps there is another dividing line in the debate I think. People who are happy to work with the breeds nature and those who wish to humanise the dog? |
I don't believe that the training one gives their dog depends on the breed at all. All Westies, for example, do not all have the same personalities and that applies to all breeds.
I believe a kind way should be found when training a dog, taking in to account the dogs character and personality, not the breed. |
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Cassandra High Post Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 358 Location: Motherwell
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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I would really love to see you with a bull breed and see you sucessfully use the same techniques as you do on a westie.
The dogs were bred for an entirely different purpose and ignoring their breed qualities is just....well...in this instance I am stunned by the sheer ignorance of it for someone who claims to know so much about dogs.
To refer to the puppy classes I have been attending...and our tutor Eleanor, she has made a point of mentioning breed characteristics at both lessons we have attended and when allowing the puppies off leash in class has taken the breed dynamics into account. |
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Isabel I don't have a life ...I'm always here!
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 1465
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I think you definitely have to take the breed into account when training as they do have naturally different traits, some types are naturally more sensitive than others and need to be handled differently. If you read about the different breeds it tells you this. Their natural traits means that different breeds need to be treated diff. sometimes. An extreme example of this is huskies, they have such a strong desire to run that they should not be walked off lead whereas many other breeds are fine off lead. Within breeds you get very different personalities as well so one type of training may not be suitable across the board. I think the training has to be suited to the dogs personality. |
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Enid Site Addict
Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 642 Location: Dullatur
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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You are both right.
The breed type must provide the starting point for any training. As the training progresses an intuitive trainer will soon assess the individual nature of the dog, and adapt the techniques accordingly. _________________ "My little dog - a heartbeat at my feet" - Edith Wharton |
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marcella Guest
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I think it is fair to say that training techniques with dogs vary depending on, BREED, CHARACTER, PERSONALITY AND TRAINER/HANDLER.
They ALL come into play.
I firmly believe that you CANNOT apply the exact same rules to different dogs. We have 2 of the same breed - 2 VERY different dogs by personality. Both know their place. But as younger dogs learning the ropes, they responded very differently to different training techniques.
Whilst walking them and teaching them not to pull, Murphy would respond by us simply stopping walking and he KNEW he had to step back and into line. Diesel however would pull like a train. A half check made no difference, turning and walking the opposite way made no difference, he SNAPPED a halti. So we got pinch collars. He pulled once and decided he didn't like it.................. he walks beautifully at our side now, no pulling whatsoever.
I would love to be in the position where voice commands worked 100% of the time. But have two large dogs of a breed that by many are still seen as a 'dangerous dog breed' I simply refuse to allow them to be in a situation where someone can complain or feel threatened.
At the end of the day, training a dog should be for the benefit of the dogs health and happiness and for the safety of others. That is the priority. Training them in a kind but firm manner without excessive or unnecessary force.
There is no specific RIGHT OR WRONG way to train a dog and we can only voice our opinions. |
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Cassandra High Post Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 358 Location: Motherwell
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
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marcella wrote: |
I think it is fair to say that training techniques with dogs vary depending on, BREED, CHARACTER, PERSONALITY AND TRAINER/HANDLER.
They ALL come into play.
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Couldn't agree more |
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Sam Forum Regular
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 61
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:41 am Post subject: |
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I ticked Yes , though i read it wrong ..lol..should have been no, i dont think its cruel.
I think it is safe to say that as dog lovers and owners we can draw the line between abuse, and giving a dog that is pushing its luck and behaving like a little b*gger a hot backside for its efforts.
I dont believe all this New age tut that if your dog is behaving like a complete an utter b*gger once in a while, that its all your fault for not being a good owner
I think that's rubbish... dogs will do what gains them the most, its as simple as that, and its quite stunning how many variations they can come up with.
Some things are acceptable and some things are not... if you have a house dog you will come across numerous things that are not acceptable . Unless you are super fantastic and can think ahead of every situation for every breed , you are going to come across things one at a time and according to the age of the dog and its breeding , they will be different things . Dogs are not machines and they all differ.
Marcella i agree..you summed it up very well. Breeds differ
Its all very well for them with their potnoodles to be saying " this is how things should be done" but that neither here nore there if you own a mastiff for example .
Nicola...did you not have a run in with someone called Ron recently?,,or is that another Nicola?
Sam
Ps....I am assuming multi-pedigree is another name for mongrel? . If we talking dogs then i dont think . Its right to be all high and mighty about breeding in one post, and then lump them all in together in another. Yes they are all dogs, but they are very different depending on breeding. I dont think that alpha roll thing is suitable for anything bigger than a pup.
Sam _________________ Damn dags. |
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Magz I don't have a life ...I'm always here!
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Posts: 1269 Location: Cumbernauld
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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I think this debate has come up with some interesting view points. You all have a great passion for dogs that is clear, I personally stick to certain breed types as I feel I have more of an affinity with them, but have had my eyes opened well and truly, in my own head lol breed types is just a skill or natural instinct the dogs have that can be built upon to do jobs or for training purposes, but I think when it comes to life it all depends on the upbringing and socialization that the dog encounters over the years, If you can direct those attributes in a positive way you can have a happy balanced dog. I think when It comes to children and animals and the debates about whether it is ok to use forms of physical punishment ( such as tapping or retraining a dog in a non violent way)all depends on the persons personal beliefs and general understanding, the very fact that folks here joined the forum shows you have a real love and passion for your dogs and a real understanding that violent behavior towards dogs is not an option. We are all dog lovers for the same reasons. |
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marcella Guest
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Margaret wrote: |
, I personally stick to certain breed types as I feel I have more of an affinity with them, |
Margaret, I very much agree with you there. We've always had GSDs, mainly because we both just adore them but also because we have that same 'affinity' you mentioned. We know this breed now and feel that we have a head start whenever we've had a new pup.
That is part of the 'training your dog' process in my opinion........ it helps when you know a bit about the breed.
How long until your little Kiera can come out to play now? |
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Magz I don't have a life ...I'm always here!
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Posts: 1269 Location: Cumbernauld
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: |
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marcella wrote: |
Margaret wrote: |
, I personally stick to certain breed types as I feel I have more of an affinity with them, |
Margaret, I very much agree with you there. We've always had GSDs, mainly because we both just adore them but also because we have that same 'affinity' you mentioned. We know this breed now and feel that we have a head start whenever we've had a new pup.
That is part of the 'training your dog' process in my opinion........ it helps when you know a bit about the breed.
How long until your little Kiera can come out to play now? |
A wee while yet another 3 n a bit weeks but she will be at show today as we dont have a dog sitter. so if you see a mad squad with kids a springer and a pup in thier arms thats us taking puppypads for Kiera if she needs to go pee pee. |
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marcella Guest
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |
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hopefully see you there Margaret .............. I'll be the fat chump walking about with a bald bloke and 2 GSDs ........... and perhaps Emily who hasn't decided if she's coming yet! |
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Magz I don't have a life ...I'm always here!
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Posts: 1269 Location: Cumbernauld
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:00 am Post subject: |
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we plan to be there around 11 ish to make sure we know when things are on. so if we need to take dogs back to car for food n rest we can |
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Cassandra High Post Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 358 Location: Motherwell
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: |
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I am very much with margaret here. I tend to stick to BC's despite having experience with GSD's, boxers(albeit limited) and labs. Drew has some experience with bull breeds, we have a number of friends who have some stunning staffies, and merican bulldogs, I'm just not confident enough with them and know this would be a very bad 'pushing' point.
As Sam has said there is a line (albeit a fine one) between violence towards a dog and correcting it. To bring kids into it again I am not going to stand there and watch my 10mth old son reach for a fire...I would much prefer him to be hurt by a slap on the hand than a trip to A&E.
The same applies to the dog. Some situations a dog will push on require his good behaviour because otherwise he could endanger his life. I won't take that chance with him...and if the 'speaking very sternly' doesn't work then I will physically correct him and make him understand that his behaviour isn't on...before he learns that its dangerous |
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Deborah Hamilton I don't have a life ...I'm always here!
Joined: 07 Apr 2007 Posts: 1478 Location: Cumbernauld
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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marcella wrote: |
Excellent thread Suzanne!!!!!!
I don't 'hit' either of our dogs, but I would not think twice about grabbing them by the scruff of the neck if they were being aggressive or refusing to obey a command. 'Hitting' no - a correction 'yes' But a correction must be a correction and not a slap, punch or kick. I'm against slapping a dogs nose ......... I read somewhere that it can damage their sense of smell????? True or not I don't hit their nose. But I don't think twice about a nudge or similar to distract their attention if they are ignoring you.
so in other words I voted yes, in that context. |
I would agree with you Marcella. ( good question Suzanne) I find Mishka a girly girl and doesn't need too much correction.She is very affectionate and seems to get 'distressed' if corrected even with a strong voice correction. Maybe I'm just a big softy but I do correct her when I feel she needs to be. |
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