First Walks

[Josephine]

I'm new to this site, having joined a couple of weeks ago and haven't yet introduced myself. I will do that in another post. I thought it was great to have something like this in Cumbernauld and thought maybe it might lead to something nice socially and then I read this. Prong collars!!! It beggars believe that people on here actually use them and advocate them to others! They are horrific and I am in no way being over dramatic or sentimental. I have two rescue dogs of my own both of which can be a bit over excited at times and I would never, ever use a prong collar on them. When I got Barney he seemed to have never had even a collar on but I never resorted to such measures. I worked with him on a halti which helped but didn't really help enough so I then got a harness for him and an extending lead which was much better and he still wears the harness today. My other dog Meg has one too. I'm sorry to have to say this in my first post but I am appalled at discovering people here are advocating prong collars. I feel the same way about choke leads too. Just try them on yourself and get someone to pull the lead hard and you will know what your dog feels like! Maybe it's not the right place for me and my dogs after all.
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Josephine
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[kendal]

hi welcome. please do put up a post in the intro section about your self and your dogs. we would all really like to hear about them.


you are completely entitled to your opinion, and thank you for your comment. however we are not just all about the pronged collars. we have lots of other members who dont use the prong.

yeas we do suggest them but it is up to the individual to decide whether or not to use one.


please do not let this discourage you from the forum, we are a friendly bunch.
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[Janis]

[Isabel]

Hi, welcome to the forum. I was horrified at prong collars at first and I thought that there was no way I would put that on my dog, but John (who runs the club) explained them to me and put one on my arm and they are not as bad as they look or sound. I think they should actually be called pinch collars as the prongs are not sharp they are rounded and if the dog pulls it pinches their neck. I use it on one of my dogs and it works wonders, much better than pulling at his neck. If he doesn't pull then it isn't uncomfortable and if does pull then it is, and he doesn't pull with it on.

You'll find people with lots of different opinions on the forum, which is great. It is always good to debate stuff. Everyone is very friendly and you'll get lots of good advice and support.

[Sandra/David]

I also was unsure about the prong collar but after months of pulling and jumping up on everyone we met I was at the end of my tether and actually dreaded having to take Molly out as she literally pulled me off my feet we gave it a try and the difference was unbelievable, having limited mobility at the moment Molly would have been stuck with our back garden, big dog and small garden would not have worked, I know its not for everyone but it works for us and we're still getting out, just at a slower pace and I wouldn't be without it.

Sandra

[shirley c]

Hi Josephine, I hope you stick around and see that we are not barbaric maniacs, there are a lot of people who come to the club and do not use the pinch collar, we will never keep pushing it on someone who does not want to use it, its not for everyone, or every dog.

I have 4 dogs, only 1 I use the pinch collar on who is Luka, he is a 50kg Rhodesian Ridgeback which I cannot hold if Allan (my hubby)is not with me, Allan helps John in classes so I have Luka while he does this...I do not have the strength to hold him if he wants to go, we are having issues just now with him wanting to go for male dogs....he has done damage once, I never, ever want to repeat this.

My mum bred these dogs for years, I knew what I was getting into, I did not just jump into this breed, he has been socialised since 8 weeks old but they do have a stage they go through at this age (1yr old) where they are bolshy big Bees. I have also used a Canny collar, which is like a halti, but better designed, Luka still does not like it, but will willingly let me put his pinch on .....I never, ever jerk on it or use it for correction, any correction he does is through himself and he knows now not to pull so we dont use it 100% of the time, but depending on where we are going we will use it.

Come along and see us, you can have a look at the pinch collar if you like but you wont ever feel that we will all suggest the pinch collar as a 1st resort...it is always a last resort....as it has been for a few dogs which come to the club, who are on their last chance, one in particular had 4 homes before he was 2 and was on death row and his last chance had this home not worked out. he is in a loving home and is doing fab now, his owner loves him to bits and would never, ever abuse him but it was her choice for the pinch, John would never force the issue and if you say no, then thats fine
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[Jack]

Josephine,

Might I suggest you re-visit my post on page 1 please? I personally don't "like" prongs much and have resisted using one for years but am seriously considering getting one for my Sykes who is an horrific puller on leash whereas my girls have turned almost completely into little angels. Prongs IF used correctly can be a wonderful tool and allow an owner to walk and keep their dog safely under control whereas other methods would not. Training is all well and good but if you have a puller and that dog is powerful and unresponsive to training and correction on walks you need all the assistance you can get your hands on to ensure your dog and others around you remain safe you owe that to your dog AND to others around you. The alternative? NEVER walk your dog again - well wouldn't THAT be cruel in itself???

Harnesses do NOT work for the vast majority of dogs unless you are actually "working" them. The sole purpose of a harness was to encourage a dog to pull - hardly what I need for my Sykes. Add to the mix that he HATES the feel of a harness and refuses to walk on it and gets incredibly distressed by it I think you'd agree it would be incredibly cruel of me to use a tool YOU yourself are advocating. The little JRT me and my pack met out walking was on a harness and his owner told me he pulls dreadfully on it and aggressively approaches other dogs well.....durr....that's what they are designed to encourage!
Haltis....I acknowledge these too work IF they suit the dog but again can cause huge distress and horrific injuries to dogs if they don't suit them or are incorrectly fitted and used.

Some could therefore easily argue that the tools YOU use are cruel.

Me? I think it is all down to personal choice AND what best suits your dog.

The people on here are a lovely bunch and ALL, without exception, adore their dogs and would NEVER knowingly cause them any harm or distress. Please stick around and perhaps visit the training school or go on the pack walks and see this for yourself. Please don't judge people based upon a tool they use, keep your mind open and you will learn for yourself that their dogs are very very much loved and that their owners are only acting in the best interests of their dogs AND of others around them
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[lynn 01]

Hi

I as most of you know have a collie and if it wasn`t for the use of a prong I would not have any arms left. Bubbles just wants to run all the time and pre prong days it was a chore to walk her as I was being pulled in every direction. I also tried a halti and a body harness but the prong works, it does not quench her spirit and it means that she gets more and longer walks as I am enjoyingbeing out with her

I like Janis tried it on myself first to make sure it wasn`t going to hurt her, the only advice I would add is do not buy the one on ebay as it is made of sharper prongs than the proper one that John can supply

Lynn
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[jackdeb]

Hi Josephine and welcome to our forum

First of all can we say it would have been good for you to introduce yourself and your dogs in your first post.
It is great to have a dog club where it is a social event as well as training for our much loved dogs.We understand everyone has there own opinion but you seem to be making a decision about something you have never used.We have two english springer spaniels who responded to the use of prong collars immediately this was after exhausting all other forms of leads/collars/harnesses.Why don't you come to training class and see all the different breeds of dogs and all the different collars adopted by individual owners.Hopefully you will see that we all want the best for our dogs and we feel that we are giving it to them i personally know that we have two healthy well looked after happy family dogs.

Debbie
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[jackdeb]

[Josephine]

If you cannot see that and accept we all have the right to decide the training methods that we adopt with our individual dogs
then maybe this is not the place for you.

Yes, you're absolutely right. This is probably not the place for me. I would never do anything so abhorrent as to use prong collars on my dog nor could I even bear to stand back and watch someone else using them. I don't need to have used one to know it is ethically wrong. I can see that easily enough and the more I read around this site the more I see references to prong collars, electric shock collars and some questionable other training methods. I'm glad to see my post has evoked such a response. The thought that comes to mind is "The lady doth protest too much. " I don't deny you all love your dogs. I think that's evident but I also think some of you have been swayed too much in favour of the prong collars. Sometimes something which is wrong suddenly seems to be right by when you see many other people doing it.
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Josephine
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[Josephine]

Jackdeb said " although we are very aware not to put them on when we go to vet." Now why is that???? This statement speaks volumes! and yes Jack I have reread your post and all the others several times and I see absolutely nothing to change my mind. You are all of course allowed your opinions too but I hope this has at least made you think about it more.
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Josephine
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[Janis]

[Ross/Ali]

For what its worth, we do not own a prong collar for our dog - CKC spaniel.
He does pull when on the lead, but he's manageable.

However, if he was a bigger, stronger dog then I would have no issues about using one.
This is nothing to do with anyone in this forum or the club swaying my opinion on this. Its from first-hand experience walking my sister's dog - A Great Dane.

I walked him using a standard collar and when he lunged at another dog, he pulled me off my feet and then once I got back in control the collar snapped! Not a good moment!

I have since tried walking him with a prong collar and it keeps him under control. It doesn't cause any damage or injuries to the dog's neck and he doesn't squeel or hurt when pulling on it - probably due to the pinching effect it has instead of piercing the flesh as people may think.
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[Jack]

Josephine.

I think you have been swayed by the same types of prong collars I myself had seen & not realised there are many varieties out there. I confess I'd seen the horror stories and I ASSUMED ALL were cruel and inhumane. I still don't like the thought of them much (that is MY personal feeling) but I too have seen the "softer" variety - that which does not pierce the skin through the prongs being too sharp or the owner being ineffective in using the tool. I have also seen for myself the pleasure owners can gain at walking their dogs safely and happily because they use the collar PROPERLY and NOT in an inhumane way. It is this that has me considering getting one myself for my Sykes. He is an horrific puller. Circumstances at the minute mean that I am the dog walker of the house and I have 3 exhuberant Staffies. ALL of whom like to pull, as Staffies do, but Sykes is by far and away the worst. It can mean it is dangerous for me to walk them altogether - what to do? leave him at home and not walk him? Well that would be downright cruel and un-neccessary - I want HIM to be part of our pack walks. I want HIM to walk well and not pull me over or lunge at other dogs setting my girls up to join in. I want us ALL to have fun and to walk safely and for me to have ultimate control. IF I decide to go down the prong route it would give me that I hope. It is MY job to keep us all safe AND all other dogs and people in our vicinity - if I closed my mind to the concept then THAT would be cruel and irresponsible but I haven't yet decided to do that I am continuing to work on his training. I MAY try a Halti, I may not - I have seen some horrific injuries from these, I also know of dogs who go into panic and distress at the mere sight of them and do NOT enjoy their walks with them on too yet you extoll their virtues - others would argue with you that your training tool therefore is cruel - people have not attacked you personally on this issue but you feel at liberty to attack the good people of this forum for what THEY do.
I'm sorry Josephine but that's very rude and blinkered. You should investigate properly and see for yourself how these tools have made both owners and dogs much happier and safer to be around before jumping in and accusing them of cruelty on ANY level.

People who are not educated in the CORRECT use of this tool always, without exception, assume they are cruel and inhumane - I should know I used to have that attitude until I opened my eyes and researched them and learned more. It is that very attitude that has SOME people deciding not to pop the prong collar on their dogs when they go to the vets, to avoid the dirty looks and the accusation in peoples eyes NOT because they themselves feel they are using a cruel tool! IF I used a prong collar then I would use it even when visiting a vets, in fact probably more so because it's a confined area with many dogs and IF you have a dog with issues you MUST keep your dog and others around it safe - if a prong enables you to do this then all the better - what would you prefer? A full blown dog fight to break out because a dog with a problem was not wearing a tool that would give its owner control & keep everyone safe???

The one thing I will agree with you on are E-Collars - I HATE THEM and am not ashamed to admit it. BUT I CAN see that they too can have a place in keeping a dog safe such as the episode of The Dog Whisperer when one was used to stop a dog approaching moving vehicles and attacking the tyres - said dog had already been run over 3 times and lost an eye because of it's obssession. The E-Collar enabled the farmer to keep the dog AWAY from the tyres and thus saved its life so in circumstances such as that you're damned right I'd use one. If it's a choice between keeping MY dog safe and alive or swallowing my distaste of a tool that would enable me to keep my dog alive and happy then it's a no brainer for me. Thank God I am not in a position to have to take that decision though because I would beat myself up over it forever. I don't like them and will never pretend I do but I DO accept they are a tool there to assist if circumstances demand and all other training methods have failed - they are very much a last resort option for me.

If you do decide to stick around then please learn more before you slate people and their methods and as Debbie said tell us about you and your dogs, join in and keep an open mind - you never know you might just learn something that is of use to you.
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