Welfare Organisations Join Forces To Highlight Problems.

[Gordon]

Problems with training.

I hope this gets people talking.

[Alan and Lynsey]

What alot of oh I swore, i use a prong and have two happy dogs with no aggression issues. i think its up to each owner the way they train there dogs, since i have joined cumbernauld dog training i have had nothing but success with my dogs. some people already know this but i will tell the story again; we got meg when she was 7 months old, her previous owners took meg to private training and it cost £100 for three lessons and after three lessons meg was deemed untrainable by the instructor, anybody that knows me and meg and has seen us training you will know that meg is very well trained. bella our 5 1/2 month cocker pup has been training since she was 10 weeks old with the club and is coming on excellent.

each to there own i guess.

Alan

[Janis]

i tend to agree with alan....it is very much each to their own but a choke chain or slip lead used the wrong way can cause problem.

i have my tickets for ceasar milan and look forward to listening to him and see more of his techniques......as for the prong collar,... and you know this gordon ,....i currently use one on each of my dogs and they are very healthy happy content dogs....i only wish i had known about them when i had my first dogs and not used the choke chain which tore fur out of their necks even just when they pulled and not on my correction!

it might be just me but i think we have tackled this subject before and i don't think we need you to re start it again.....we all have our preferences and we appreciate that you don't use the tools others do and to us that is fine....... lets face it i probably cook beef differently from you.............i like my eggs hard boiled....you might like them scrambled or raw....whatever....each to their own!
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Cockapoo's...a little of this, a little of that..........
the perfect combination!

[Michael]

The key phrase in the article is "welfare perspective" if a dog is behaving aggressive there's clearly an issue there, this proves there is already a "welfare issue" which must be taken hand and leadership and guidance given to the dog to take the pressure off the animal and reduce the unwanted behavior. corrections must be given and must match the level of behavior the dog is displaying like it or not. It would be interesting to see how many off these people have for a significant amount of time been around people who safely and responsibly use training aids such as prongs anyone can go and find horror stories about a piece of equipment,person or organization but it must be seen from all sides. I'm sure in a pack the alpha acts nice and gentle with a pack member challenging him or doing something the pack member shouldn't be. NOT!. These people should not be condemning but promoting safe and responsible use of equipment like prong collars.


INTERVIEW WITH ALPHA MALE

Reporter: hello Mr Alpha male

Mr A.M: hello sonny

Reporter: i was wondering if I could ask you a few questions?

Mr A.M: nah bother son fire in!

Reporter: do you feel it is important to discipline your pack?

Mr A.M: aye a do that lad, if ye don't they just walk all over and take the mic

Reporter: so do you kiss them on the cheek and tell them all to behave? is tht your method?

Mr A.M: well naw a don't kiss them or that-don't huv the lips 4 tht. a bite them on the neck n pin them tae the grun till they day wit their telt! don't puncture the skin mind. uve goat tae be responsible.

Reporter: so what do u say to people who claim these are posing welfare problems and describe this behavior as aversive training techniques?

Mr A.M: listen son its aww wan tae huv hippy ideals when yuve gut a dug wae nae issues or that less less direct methods work wae but sometimes mere direct action hus tae be taken its fur the best interests eh the dug its just goat tae be done responsibly.

Reporter: Thank you for your time Mr Alpha male.

Mr A.M : nae bother son happy tae help ill head hame noo am gettin a new prong delivered the day!

[John Thomson]

Quite an interesting read Gordon.

Purely positive training is a lovely theory but in practice a lot more difficult to achieve.....and with the right dog/handler combination I am 100% in favour of it.........

An interesting comparison with this would be in our schools and education system.......has the standard of education got better or worse since our government started reasoning with kids instead of teaching them?, has discipline got better or worse since corporal punishment was abolished?

Take away rules, limitations and boundaries and you will inevitably have problems. Do you feel safer walking the streets now that all the neds know their 'human rights' and that even in many cases the police can't touch them?

john
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[Gordon]

I didn't post this to start an argument about your training methods. I was sent it as an email and thought it would be a topic people would like to hear.
I use both positive and negative reinforcement to train a dog. A dog wont learn from just positive. I try to think on how I would like to be taught and that's the methods I use on others.
As for the dog whisperer I do watch the show and like a lot of the methods used, especially being calm and assertive. Most trainers or owners don't have a pack of dogs to help out with aggression etc. Each dog is different and there are loads of different training methods that can be used, but I would never grab a dog and pin it to the floor in an alpha roll. That's one way to get bitten. Tone of voice and body language is the best way, I feel, to get your point over to the dog. And also reading their body language also.
I put this post up to get everyone to think on the different methods available. If you find a method that works you stay with that. But trying to find a method as a trainer, you have to look at the breed of dog and also the temperament. If you can get the dog to think and do what you are wanting to do, that will stay with the dog. If the dog is physically forced in to submission it will revert back or will always be wary of you, and that's not good for your relationship with each other.
Anyway Have a good 2010. Happy New Year.

[Michael]

Its good to get a bit of healthy discussion going Gordon its purely debate and has been brought up appropriately that's what the forum is for after all discussing issues and getting other peoples opinions on things. Don't think anyone is arguing it would be wrong for anyone to take any of this personally as we all have different views and methods we use with our dogs and should feel able to discus these openly its a public forum after all.

[John Thomson]

There is no argument here......everyone has different training methods.

I agree Gordon.......Alpha roll is one of the most dangerous things I have ever heard of...and you are right it is a sure fire way to get bitten.

There is no single 'method' that works for all dogs, animals or humans and to suggest there is makes no sense. The organisations that suggest or insist that there method works on all dogs usually charge a lot of money for their 'advice'.

Every dog/handler combination is different and that relationship changes constantly.

john
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[shirley c]

I know what method I will continue to use

as ive just skelped luka for stealing a bag of beads

ok probably not correct way to deal with it, I probably should calmly taken the bag from him, but i paid a bloomin fortune for some of those lampwork beads

As luka now rolls ovr for a belly rub
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lurchers Pixel and Zev and whippet, Fen
3 cats, Greebo, Yu and Lexx - 2 ferrets and Dales pony Jazz and adopted pony, April

[Suzanne H]

I always got the impression that Cesar was working with dogs that were beyond help and that without him, they'd be put down.

I think positive reinforcement of good behaviour through training is a big part of it, but just as important is routine, exercise and, with some dogs, they do need to know who's the boss.

I have a big powerful dog, who's neutered and not particularly dominant but he needs to stay on the floor, sleep in the kitchen, have regular training sessions or he will start to challenge me. As long as he's kept in his place he's as good as gold and totally biddable.

I can be too soft with both of them, but I know when I need correcting. He rarely does.