How Many Chances?

[Laura]

How many chances does a dog deserve?

If you go onto any SBT forum, the general consensus is NONE. One bite and the general opinion is PTS.

I can hand on heart say if any of my dogs turned and bared their teeth or tried to bite me it would be a one way trip to the vets as much as I love them It's the only issue I WONT allow we have had in fighting but never directed at me. Pepeople think because of this they are aggressive to humans...Nothing could be futrher to the truth, its because of their fighting ancestry they are so affable towards humans. In the old days when the handler had to go into the pit they would have to go in and pick up a dog mid fight and be certain the dog wouldnt turn on them, any dog who did was culled. I often think folk with breeds which are seen to be less (outwardly) aggressive give more chances. If any one of my three dogs bit me, there would be only one very sad and final ending,
rhaps owning a more dominant breed you have to be on top of it. For years the SBT was a fighting dog,

[John Thomson]

Personally I would make BIG changes in the pack structure in the house if needed......most times the dog is NOT to blame.........they only have instinct to tell them how to react to situations.

just my opinion.
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[Claire/Mark]

I personally think they deserve another chance as sometimes it's the dog owner that's not training them correctly or have giving the wrong signals to the dog....A guess it depends on how far they go

[John Thomson]

I have to say Claire that Mylo prove that a second chance is justified

sometimes it just takes an 'outsider' to look and make some observations as to what is happening in the home/pack.
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[JayDee]

[Claire/Mark]

Totally agree with you John and we owe you a lot for that, if it wasn't for that day that my mum picked up the phone god knows what would have happened to Mylo if it was up to the vets, then we wouldn't have met all you guys and started to learn and understand how to train Mylo correctly and have order in the house, so Thank You, you helped us to have a happy home and saved my wee boys life

[linsey]

I wouldn't be as straight down the line as dog bites = dog dead (I don't like the euphemism PTS... it gets away from the reality of the action... unless the animal is ill and being put down as a humane act, then to me "PTS" is a nice way to say "execution")

Anyway, never mind that... I think each case has to be judged on its own merits and I think in most cases the dog deserves a second chance.

Leon bit me once. I now realise that I was to almost completely to blame as I wasn't enforcing pack order etc. He is now a great we dog. He still has a bit of attitude but that is just personality! He is like a "different animal" now and everyone who knows him from the classes would agree I hope?

If it was a patently vicious and troubled dog then it might be a different matter... but as I say, you can only judge everything on its own merits.

Nothing is ever black and white.
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Dogs are the leaders of the planet.
If you saw two living creatures, one of them does a poo and the other carries it for him, who would YOU think was in charge?
- Laurence Billi

[kendal]

Gypsy has bitten me once but she didn't leave a mark, she knew what she had done as i could tell by her eyes and her body language, it was my fault as the girls were having a play fight that was getting to intense for my liking, so i put my hand in to brake it up(wrong place wrong time) i touched the same spot Inca was going for and Gypsy went for Inca and got me. she coward strait away and was scared to come near me

i was also bitten at work, was left with a tiny mark on my arm(one tooth bruise that didn't brake the skin) and again my fault. two dogs kenneled next to each other that didn't like each other, i was in with one of them so decided to take him by the collar and turn him round so he wasn't looking at the other dog, it worked but then he decided to turn round and my hand slipped on the collar and my arm was in the was of him when he was barking and his mouth went round my arm mid bark, he just pulled back and went under my arm to see the other dog.

i think it comes down to circumstance, and you need to asses the situation its self and make the judgment.

from the way you talk about your dogs i see it as unlikely that you will ever have to make that decision, and hope you never do as i can see you love them very much.
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microchiping and grooming www.chipnclip.co.uk

[Magz]

I think there you have to assess carefully why a dog bites before a pts rule is enforced. I used to foster dogs for rescue and have found that there are so many reasons behind a bite that you have to take each in context regarding situation and of course temperament of the dog.
I have had a few bites in my time most through fear and never anything serious, and out of them all none have had to be pts. before our sheila passed away she managed to bite my hubby which if any of you who knew her was a very caring and quiet dog that would never hurt a fly but the situation was all to do with why she did it. my hubby was removing the plaster that was covering her stitches from getting her cancerous lumps removed and to be honest if he had done that to me too I would have bit him aswell.
It all depends on the nature of the dog and how it has been treated and also who is in control of a dog or supporting the owners to deal with the issues.

[Janis]

i agree with linsey and john...............nothing is that black and white and pack order is the most important rule of any dog!

every situation should be assessed! where young children or babies are around no dog whatever the breed is should be left unattended with them!
admittedly you cannot keep giving chances if the biting consistently reoccurs! i think the human should then take a good look at themselves and how they are around their dogs and who really has the lead!
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Cockapoo's...a little of this, a little of that..........
the perfect combination!

[marcella]

oh good thread!!!!!!! Lots to debate with this one.

Depends on circumstances........ I think there would have to be certain factors taken into consideration. How well the dog is trained, how the circumstances of the bite took place, did the dog just have a 'bite' then leave, or was it a savaged attack? Was the dog goaded into it? Was it protecting my family ............ blah blah blah. You know what I mean.

[Janis]

just remembered , and i have told john of this dog! someone who used to stay down beside my mum got herself a young 8 week old spring spaniel named spud and it was cute but not at all like a puppy should be! very nervous and withdrawn!

she did all the right stuff with training etc but this dog was just not for socialising nor mixing with other dogs!once it was past a year old and several bites later she approached her vet who agreed to do some tests! not sure what the exact tests were and this was some 18 to 20 years ago but it was concluded that it really wasn't the dogs fault but a brain scan had revealed that there was some electric current movement or something which caused the dog to act strangely without warning!

sadly the decision was taken to put the down to sleep as it wasn't going to get any better and could have damaged someone seriously!

this was an isolated incident and no amount of pack leadership i don't believe would have given this dog a better quality of life!
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Cockapoo's...a little of this, a little of that..........
the perfect combination!

[Lindy]

I have to agree with the majority here it is not so black and white as dog bites dog is put down and I also tend to agree with Linsey re the term PTS as it really only means in a caring way when the dog is ill in all other circumatnces it means death. Pack order is sooooo important and we all know that most agressive dogs have no or very little pack order and once that is put in place then the dog is balanced and relaxed and happy some take longer than others but on the whole I would say (IMO) most dogs with the exception of a few that have behaivoural problmes due to breeding/genes can be rehabilitated and become balanced animals. Dora for example bite Alan and pierced the skin it was very deep and a pretty big wound but the reson she done it was not because she was agressive or lacked pack oreder it was because she has jumped in a boiling bath and burned her tummy and legs and he was trying to help her but she was in so much pain and scared that she bit him now in no circumstances when I took her to the vets that night was it to get her put to death it was to help her as she was in so much pain.

[Emma*]

definitely depends on the circumstances. My my first great dane was 13 ,months old when i got her..the first walk i took her on she bit me several times and Pierced my skin for a chocolate bar i had brought in the garage!!
I walked past a police car and asked for help and they just got back in the car?!!?
I ended up feeding her the chocolate bar in tiny pieces as we were walking, to get home!

Realised she had a few problems not only did she need a leader but was also a man hater and a racist!!!
Started training as soon as i got in, consistent and firm. After that she never bit me again, was the best dog i ever had, brilliant with children she used to sit watch at Lauren's crib when she was born

Good training is definitely the key and the couple that had Molly before me were going to have her put to sleep!
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Happiness is being loved by 2 Great Danes

[Lorna]

I agree that this is not black and white. I have dealt with rescue dogs who display fear aggression but these dogs MUST be kept away from any situation in which they will bite. I would never have such a dog near children. As John and Marcella teach, dogs respond to pack order being very certain. Once they can relax and be sure they do not have to respond that way, they are much happier dogs.

Where a dog bites, I would try to understand why and then deal with it.

However, if any dog of mine ever bit a child I would put it to death. I am not going to use the euphemism here.

I would never leave a dog alone with a child. Therefore, I should be able to prevent such an occurrence. I would never let Misty in the same room as a child now as she could turn if she were hurt. If children visit she is crated.
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Regards,
Lorna, Basil & Poppy
Great Danes are not substitute children. They are much more important than that!