Dog Behaviourists.....Why I have a Problem With Them

[Eleanor]

Sorry to hear that this 'advice' was given over the phone - not professional at all

I do believe that there are some very good behaviorists out there, but with all walks of life you will always get someone trying to make a quick buck for crap advice

Not fair to tar all with the same brush - my opinion for what its worth


Eleanor

[John Thomson]

[kirsty]

John

As you know I had a behaviorist that spent a few hours with Dodge - and she was pretty spot on about his dominance and insecurity. But she gives her time freely to the GSD rescue.

The only thing she did say was that when she visited the kennels used by the German shepherd rescue - she would not work with dodge, as she did not trust him - she said his eyes were completely flat and expressionless but he still had that 'mess with me and I'll have you' body language - she was amazed what a couple of months in a loving home had done for him - but still did not really trust him. - so I guess she got that wrong - because we all know what a lovely, loving boy he is now.

A few of the rescue volunteers that came across Dodge in the kennels commented that his eyes were 'dead' - even the girl who transferred him from his previous owners to the kennels commented on his eyes when she collected him - I have put that down to depression. The police came to assess him when he was in kennels, but he would not engage - can you imagine Dodge not engaging - he would have been an excellent working dog - but that was all hidden beneath his depression - and no one took the time to see it - it is so sad.

I am glad you are working with the collie. I think this behaviorist is either the 'dog catcher in disguise' or has been bitten by a colllie as a kid.

If anyone can turn the dog around - you can - as long as they follow your advice

[carol]

I have many people who own border collies come to me and ask for agility training, they say their dog would love agility because it has lots of energy. Sadly, this usually means they have a totally out of control dog who has had no obedience training at all. The majority of these owners should not own such an animal, however they do, I usually I direct them to the local obedience club.

Not all border collies have working instinct, dogs from breed lines usually don't have a strong herding instinct.
I have 6 border collies 3 from working lines, 2 rescue and 1 working/breed. Yes they need exercise, but so do all dogs, what they do need is work that exercise their brain. I teach my dogs different tricks, they love training like this, however I find my Parson terrier is no less needy of both psychical and mental exercise.

[kirsty]

John

I have me own opinion of the RSPCA - and its not too good - I know you have had a look at the rescue site I am involved in and probably read some of the appalling articles.

So - it does not surprise me that they are giving out the number for dodgy practitioners - and that they are reccommended by RSPCA does not give them any credability in my eyes - though I realise the general public think they do a really great job.

ooooh - Im on my high horse tonight.

[marcella]

I agree with you Carol.

I have all too often seen border collies almost going mad because they have nothing to do. They are not lap dogs and shouldn't be treated as such. I think they need a home where someone is committed to exercise and discipline. All dogs deserve that.
Simple things like when we give either of our two a treat, they always have to work for it. And they love it, makes things more interesting for them. They need mental stimulation as well as a good run around the park!

[shirley c]

Im with you there Kirsty

[John Thomson]

Kirsty,

the results you have achieved with Dodge are quite something......hard work and determination from you........and look at the result.....7/8 months ago you had to muzzle him near other dogs..now look at him on a walk............great to see. Oh and remember the criticism you received regarding the use of a training collar to gain his respect! Totally unfounded and unjustified.

The Collie pup (only 7 months old) is possessive with food, but other wise a happy healthy, fit dog..yes a bit more mental stimulation would help but never in a million years is this dog a lost cause.......I was angry that someone could put this suggestion into the owners head.

Yes there may be some good behaviorist out there.........but not in my opinion the one who handed out this 'advice'
_________________
John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[Lindy]

Kirsty

I think I have a similar view of the RSPCA I was refused the oportunity to rehome a dog from them, after they came and done a visit that I was never told about, Ididn't know they were coming and without even talking to me they refused me becasue my back garden did not have a fence.... I was however going to build a run which I did for Dora and we are now (that we have got the inside of our house done) fencing the back. At the time I filled out my initally form they rehomed a dog straight away from teh family filling out the form no inspection!!!! and by the sound of it there house and garden was pretty similar to mine I would have loved to have rescued a dog I had hoped to rescue a JRT or something similar as between alan and I we have the time and patience. I also have a friend at work who volunteered for them and said it was a terrible experience.....Anyway they missed out on a good loving home for two dogs and I luckily have my two girls who will never want for anything...silly people.

[kirsty]

Yes John


The Training collar was as you say 'power steering' for my dogs - bob has had me flat on my face when he has decided to 'go' - I have over 14 stone of dog on the leash and the 'prong collar' was the greatest thing since sliced bread to me.

I still use the prong when I have to walk them on the lead anywhere as even now they have a tendency to pull - just with me, not so much with Lindsay. So on the collar goes.

People will see that I use a choke chain on the glen walks. This is because when I give them freedom to run off and forage I worry about them having any collar on in case they get caught up in shrubbery etc. - This really applies to Dodge as he can disappear for 10 mins at a time. If he catches the scent of a deer or fox he is off.

Under normal circumstances I would never use a choke chain, I don't think the dog choking itself till it turns breathless is ideal - but for my needs of just getting them back on the lead when another dog approaches the choke is fine.

BUT THE PRONG COLLAR RULES. - I always use it in training class - it lets dodge know that were working now.

[carol]

Can anyone enlighten me? What is a prong collar?

[Sheryl]

Its like a metal color/chain thing that has spike but the spike are NOT sharp and all it does is put pressure on the dogs on the dogs neck, it DOES NOT hurt the dogs at all John tried it on my arm and i was surprised at it not hurting!! Think on getting one for Keano and Coby!!!

John or someone that is good with computers may be able to post a pic of one!

They do look quite scary I must admit but I was totally amazed at the fact it really doesn't hurt!!


x
_________________
Kindest Regards,
PRINCESS Sheryl, Keano and Coby.

[John Thomson]

Hi Carol,

a prong or pinch collar is a training collar used with strong or dominant dogs who do not respond to leash corrections given when wearing a flat collar, half check or full check ( choke chain).

These collars are extremely humane and are widely used in the US and Germany.

The big drawback is the way they look to someone who does not understand them or their use.

A correction with a pinch collar mimics the mother correcting a pup with her mouth on its neck.

These require a light touch, no big corrections are needed........in fact most times the dog tries to pull they correct themselves.

They are not for every dog but headstrong dogs who do not respond to normal methods. These are used strictly for training and are not worn all the time the way a normal collar is.

I will dig out some links and post them later.
_________________
John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[kirsty]

Hi Lindy

yea some poor dog missed out on a loving home there.

Its also the way they treat dogs that need help, I am close to people who had a campaign going to have a guard dog who was living with no shelter out in the rain and never having any human contact at all, only dry food thrown in to the enclosure every couple of days. This dogs coat was so knotted and matted that it must have been pulling the skin in an excruciating manner

They photographed it and sent it to the SSPCA and they just were not interested - they were asked why they would not get involved and told my friends that the animal had adequate provision for its needs.

Needless to say, my friends, who are pretty fanatical about animal welfare, took matters into their own hands, and finally, after months of talking to the owner and SSPCA -REMOVED - the dog in the wee hours, that dog is now living happily south of the border.

This is just one example of when the organisation has turned its back on animals in need.

[Lindy]

Sounds petty bad Kirsty, my colleague had volunteered to walk the dogs and never got to walk the dogs they had her doing the asistants work, cleaning the kennels etc and in her time there the dogs were not walked at all throughput the day, this may not always be the case but you would think that walking the dogs they care for would be a priority.