Here we go again ! HELP !

[maggie110th]

I am looking for a different view on what to try with one of my dogs im sure people on other sites have become bored with me complaining about her behaviors and i have tried every thing i can think of now so some fresh views would be more than welcome Right........

Daisy springer spaniel nearly 3
has since the age of 7 months showed signs of dominant behaviours, at the age of 7 months she guarded door ways bowls etc so off i went to a dog trainer who explained that yes she was a very dominant bitch who needed to be constantly kept in her place, things often go down hill with her i have tried so far positive training (she just takes advantage ) intensive training she gets bored and wont co-operate and goes back to guarding tiny bits of paper the carpet her bowl well every thing she can really ! scuffing her, rolling her, keeping her on the lead in the house but then she guards the lead, isolation works for a limited time and when i reintroduce her back in she starts her carry on again.
The reason for my plea is that things have escalated again with her it started last night over a blanket she the attacked the pup too i isolated her in the garden for a few hours and she had to stay in the kitchen all night whilst the other 2 went up stairs with me.
This morning for no reason that i could see she had ago again at one of the other dogs so went to put the lead on her (slip lead) and shew was growling and snarling tried to put her in the crate and she would have none of it, any way put her in the car and took her to school brought her home and left her in the car until i could shift the crate into the front room so she would be on her own with no audience so there she stayed until i took her out for a wee, brought her back in and put her back in the crate, she stayed there till tea time fed her and thought right she might be ok well i was wrong as soon as i took her in the kichen she ran to her corner and started snarling again! I am at the end of my leash so to speak i was advised by 1 behaviorist to PTS and also a rescue as she would never to able to be rehomed because of her dominance Now i do not want to PTS there must be some thing i haven't tried yet so please all advice is welcome, She is now back in the crate isolated.

She has hip displacia but this is controlled with pain meds

The other 2 dogs are nothing like this at all neither have any other dogs that i have had in the past it seems to be her not the way i have brought her up.

HELP !

Edited to add....... she sleeps in a basket upstairs, fed after the family has eaten, is trained but only does thing in her own time, and looks very confident tail curls over her back etc, hates other dogs (friends) etc coming into the house and has to be put away when they do (the other 2 don't mind) guards every and any thing she can vomit included yet not her poo!(this seems to be the only thing she doesn't guard !

[John Thomson]

Hi Maggie,

You certainly have your hands full!

I would say that any 'advice' given by someone who has not seen the dog in its own environment should be taken as that, advice, and not something to throw yourself into headlong.

is Daisy a rescue that you now have? If so how many previous owners? How long did she stay with her mother? Perhaps removed early from her mother and therefore missed out on a bit of 'dog disipline' ?

The displacia, although being treated may not help.........if she is not quick and agile she may feel the need to stand and fight instead flee any stressful situation?

Although 'purely positive' training sounds like a nice theory and loads of people seem to think that rationalising with a dog is 'the modern way'......dogs simply do not think the way ( modern politically correct) people do. In a dogs world the most dominant or dog that acts the most dominant gets what it wants period and it sounds as though Daisy has learned this early and has also perfected her technique.

Personally I disagree with 'Alpha rolling' a dog
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[maggie110th]

[shirley c]

I would suggest not to keep isolating her, as when you bring her back into the pack she is then trying to re-establish her place and going off on one all over again.

I dont have a lot of dominance issues with my lot, but Moya has a bit of space issues, she isnt as bad as when we got her but every now and again will try it on but she will get a smack for it....but anyone can vouch here, none of my dogs are abused or cowed and will take a telling without thinking they are going to get battered stupid
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[Claire/Mark]

My Cocker Spaniel had a dominance issues and I was advised by a vet to PTS, but ever since I have started training classes and give him plenty of exercise, not allow him on the couch, or upstairs to sleep, or just the usual things like going in the door before him. If I do put Mylo out of a room I usually just put him out for a couple of minutes let him back in and repeat the couple of minutes again if need be. Which usually works for me but he still trys to push it now and again. Poor you though I know how it feels it's so upsetting when it's happening and you feel like you have tried everything. I did have a crate for Mylo but due to the dominance issue he started to guard the crate so maybe removing the crate might help it did for me but not sure. Good Luck

[maggie110th]

Thank you everyone

[kirsty]

What about using a pinch/prong collar in the house with a very short leash, I have a leash that is literally just a handle. When the dog displays behaviors that you are unhappy with give it a sharp correction with the prong. Pain compliance...not a popular concept, but better a few sharp corrections than a jab in the bot.

I have two fairly dominant dogs...one with other dogs, one who just thinks he rules the roost, the cat, me and everything in his little universe, I feel as though I am on top of my two dogs everyday and sometimes it can feel like an uphill struggle and I think, 'this is supposed to be a pleasure, relaxing, a positive thing' there are many days it gets me down but I just keep going, trying to impose pack order on them. They both guard their toys and bones but I make a point of taking the bones off of them, right out of their mouths, one will growl like hell at me, but I just grab him by the scruff and hold him down...his ears are back, he knows he is doing wrong. This may be the point where a real hard correction with a prong collar may work.

good luck....

ps ..the reason I am suggesting the prong is my dogs show me a lot more respect when they are wearing theirs
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"In a perfect world, every dog would have a home and every home would have a dog."

[Dan McK]

If it is a last resort you could try a shock collar. Some might think it's a bit severe (I would in most cases) but it's gotta be better than PTS.
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Parsons Russell fanatic

[maggie110th]

Thanks again for you replies, lots to think about and lots to read

[geri carroll]

help me out here john.........but do dogs understand the concept of time out or being separated as described above eg left downstairs on their own ?

i merely ask out of interest

[John Thomson]

Geri,
yes 'time out ' for a dog works for a dog like it does for a child........if they want to be with you or doing something and each time they exhibit behaviour that is undesirable they are removed then if you are 100% consistent with your response to them they will get the message and change the behaviour.

hope this made some sense?
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[maggie110th]

[Dan McK]

Good luck with it then Maggie!
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Parsons Russell fanatic

[Jack]

Hi Maggie, what a dreadful situation to be in. I would be gutted because all you want to do is love her, enjoy her and keep her safe.

I'm not a huge fan of the "pain methods" of controlling your dog - probably because I can't bear to see anything IN pain if that makes sense? I think collars will only work if the dog wears them 100% of the time (at least until their behaviour has become acceptable) and if you are 100% consistent in how you employ their use. I also don't like crates being used as a "punishment" they should always be considered the dogs "safe" place and shouldn't become a place they are isolated within because they will eventually come to resent that place and you might find it becomes nigh on impossible to get them in there whether for punishment or not but I DO 100% agree with the isolation theory - shutting her in a different room to you all is definately a good idea and it does work, just as it does with a naughty child but consistency is key here you mustn't EVER accept naughty behaviour you MUST implement the same punishment for the same mis-behaviour every single time she exhibits it, it's exhausting sometimes but it does eventually sink in and work.

I definately think she needs to learn that she is NOT pack leader and this is going to be tough but essentially EVERYONE from every human in the house to every animal needs to be put before her. When entering a room for example if there is you and the 3 dogs she should be made to wait until last before being allowed to enter. At feeding time SHE should be last to be fed etc etc. If toys etc are too problematic because of her "guarding" tendencies then they should be removed and only allowed when YOU decide it is time to play such as a "fetch the ball" session in the garden etc. With food - if she "guards" that then feed her alone - allow her 15 minutes by herself to eat and if she hasn't finished lift the food up out of her eyesight and take her out of the room with you, she will eventually learn to eat when you tell her and as she hasn't the chance to "guard" it if not finished because you have removed the food she'll stop that too - again consistency of approach , patience and time is needed here - don't expect immediate results she has a lot of bad habits she has gotten away with for years to overcome and she needs you to tell her exactly how to behave.

As regards being allowed on furniture, thereby elevating her physical position and status within the pack I would completely stop this for now. I wouldn't even allow the other dogs up and not her because this might encourage her to be jealous of the others and foster resentment towards them and create even more problems for you. She needs to be utterly dominated by you for a while - I don't mean pinning her down but I do mean keeping her beneath you both physically and mentally at all times. As hard as it is you need to be very very firm with her and allow NO bad behaviour at all, the sooner she learns you are the boss and that she has to do as she is told the better.

I'm not sure if anything I have said is of use or help but I hope it is and I hope I'm not treading on any toes sticking my four penneth in If I can help you any more in any way I will and please could you keep me/us posted of yours & her progress?
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[maggie110th]

Sorry i ought have updated sooner .

Things are alot better at the moment we went away to the caravan and this sort of rocked her world because she every thing was different no guarding of any sort from her, we came home and things have continued to go well no guarding of any sort and returning straight away to the whistle as apposed to 2 or 3 blasts fingers crossed it stays like this.

The crate has been taken down in the front room as there is no more use for it at the moment how ever she sleeps and rests quite happily in the one in the kitchen so it was not the crate that was the punishment just being in a different room to us (the crate was used to keep her from guarding cushions etc in the front room)


The strange thing is i have had dogs for many years and never had one behave like Daisy so i know its not down to the way i have brought her up as this has been the same as the others its just her and her need to be leader.

I was advised to roll her which i did but it didn't hurt her it more stunned and she calmed down. I would never inflict pain on my dogs as not only would this be detromental to them but would also make all my principles about animal welfare and rescue null and void.


So all in all things are going very well at the moment and she seems to be towing the line so to speak like others have said the key is consistency and keeping it up all the time.I do all the things mentioned below about eating last entering a room etc and they do seem to keep her grounded.

I shall keep updating as to how its going