Prong/Pinch collar

[kirsty]

Hi couldnt stay away.

I know this topic is a few days old but I feel I have to comment - not that I think my opinions are precious or anything so I appreciate some of you do have different points of view.

I think there are no black or white answers to dog training and in particular the use of prong collars. I think anyone with a 'difficult' dog knows the level of training and correction required.

I was having a terrible time with my two rescue GSD. One was pulling on the lead to bark at other dogs - though he is a big softie - but other owners were not to know this. (he is over 7 stone)

The other one was pulling to the extent he was on his back legs or on his belly trying to dominate every dog he met. If he ever got the chance (in the days where I was trusting him just a little) he would have the occasional dog on the ground pinned by its throat.

In the end I had to prove a responsible dog owner and muzzle the two of them - but this did not stop the problem of them pulling me off my feet, at one point causing injury to my person, my pride, damage to my clothing and complete terror to the person who's dog was being chased down by two GSD who were on the loose as I just couldn't hold on to them. It was no consolation to them that I was on the ground shouting 'its ok they cant hurt your dog they are muzzled.

I used to email john regularly and he was a great support. He loaned me a prong collar and within moments of the dogs having it on they had its measure. I was able to control my dogs - for the peace of mind of all other dog owners and for me.

I am not being patronising here, just stating facts. There is a huge difference between trying to control a small breed and a large. The training methods are the same but where these have broken down or not been applied to the dogs formative years the correction methods have to be different. I can physically control and impose my will on a small breed if I have to. But my two dogs weigh more than I do - control, when they don't want to be controlled is impossible without the proper aid. Power steering for dogs - the prong collar.

It is also vastly different raising a puppy, where you more or less mold the dog and its is pretty much up to you how it turns out - most problems can be eradicated with proper diet, training and socialisation.

When you take on a rescue dog - you more are less take what you are given. In the past I have raised a pup and taken on rescue dogs (and cats) and none have given me a moments grief - and back then I may have expressed a view that a prong collar should be unnecessary.

even if the prong were to be considered extreme, though I dont think it is - I would rather use one than consider the alternative. Dodge had been in kennels for ages, the rescue had been trying to rehome him for months. No one wanted a dog who was very dominant, would not be pushed, pulled or made to to anything he did not want to do - who was known as the great escape artist, scaling 6 foot fences to escape from his previous owners (3 of these), a dog who had been in various kennels and stray dog establishments.

For anyone who thinks a prong collar was not the appropriate aid in the taming of Dodge, ask yourself what would you have done with a dog who did not hear me when I used voice commands, who growled at me if I tried to pull or push him, who was at risk of complaint to the police - as I could hardly hold him and he was in the faces of other dogs.

The alternative for dodge was a needle in his arm - surely a tightening of the prong, which he controls by his compliance or non compliance is the better option

[Sheryl]

i think prongs are a good training tool!
maybe not to be used all the time but certainly helps! I had one on Keano the other week and the difference was amazing!!!!
xx
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Kindest Regards,
PRINCESS Sheryl, Keano and Coby.

[Cassandra]

The first time I ever heard of a prong collar was on Ceasars show. I was gobsmacked that he would put such a thing on a dog it looked absolutely barbaric!
I had never seen one and to see someone with such a high reputation with dog training...I was just stunned.

I have been fortunate enough to not come into contact with a dog that would need such correction. Reading Kirsty's story its obvious this was a necessary item for a dog to live...period.

I also have to say I hope I never have to use one. I 'think' border collies are within my strength range. I may have that tested at somepoint so I won't count my chickens

[Sheryl]

But with prong collar you dont do anything!!!
You dont have to pull the dog at all!!!
The dog has a choice it can either carry on pulling and be uncomfortable of it can walk beside its owner with feeling anything!!!
Keano pulled once got a fright and walked beside me the rest of the walk no problem at all!
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Kindest Regards,
PRINCESS Sheryl, Keano and Coby.

[Cassandra]

my pride demands I try other ways lol....its cheaper too! If Ash ever got to the point where Kirsty was then it would be a consideration...but I would never just put a collar on him to save my effort in his training

[Sheryl]

definitely each to there own!
I wouldn't have tried it unless I had felt what it was like!
I don't have prongs for the boys as there really not that bad!!
But I can understand why people would use them!

p.s Ive just realised that I always use exclamation marks, I have no idea why.lol
xx
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Kindest Regards,
PRINCESS Sheryl, Keano and Coby.

[marcella]

Cass............. they aren't remotely barbaric. They LOOK horrific but actually aren't in the slightest. That was exactly my thoughts when John first mentioned trying them on our dogs.
But having seen, felt and used one I am a complete believer. There is NO WAY I would do anything to hurt my dogs, I love them far too much, and also no way Caesar would either.
Another example of this is one club member who's dogs are always exceptional in class. She also has 2 GSDs, big guys. She was sooooo against the look of a prong until one day..........
She was walking them one day and they saw a cat on the other side of the road. She was pulled across a busy road face first. She was a mess physically as well as being very shaken. She bought 2 collars when she went to the States on holiday and has never looked back. Her dogs no longer pull at all.

It's easy to rule things out ........... but a prong is more humane than pulling your dogs neck. They simply don't pull which means they require no correction......... which means to damage to your dog!!!!!!

Next time you are on the walk ask John to remove one to let you see, I think you will be quite surprised.


Kirsty does fantastic work with GSD Rescue and has always had every dogs health and welfare as her priority. She took on Dodge ......... a 'lost cause' by all accounts. She has turned him around and she now has a happy big guy instead of the scared, unhappy and aggressive dog that she first met.
She has my admiration, it was no easy task.

[Fiona]

I am a big fan of the prong collar and having done the test on my own arm I can tell you they are far less barbaric than a choke! I am lucky enough that I don't have to use one on Libby or Star but having been on the other end of a 10st Ridgeback I know where you are coming from Kirsty. We bought one for Cain and what a difference, with his half check on even John struggled to control him. As soon as we put the prong on he pulled once then never again, Jenna could even walk him with it on.

Looks aren't everything trust me!
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Dogs are like Chocolate, you just can't have one!

[Cassandra]

Oh I never said I would rule them out, and I don't condemn anyone else for using them either, I can see and understand completely why people would use them.

Its just not something at this stage with Ash I am prepared to use.

[kirsty]

Hi guys, thanks for the supportive comments.

Cassandra, you have yet to meet Dodge - mabey when Ash is bigger I will meet you at a 'big dog' walk.
He is really a loving dog now, so dont be affraid to let him near ash.

He can still be a wee tad unpredictable - he gave John some verbal abuse in the way of a warning on the walk on Sunday evening - but on the whole people think he's a good boy - and that makes my heart burst with pride in him - as he has done all the hard work to improve - he has chosen to put his trust in a human being for probably the first time in his life -

On Sunday night after the walk I took the dogs into the pub to collect Lindsay and Dodge actually trotted over to a group of people with young kids, lay down beside them away from us and let them fawn all over him. Eventually he rolled onto his back to have his tummy tickled - I am still in shock, the change in him is so slow that I take it for granted mostly - but even I was shocked at the trust he was putting in complete strangers.

Marcella, John - how precious was that!! (especially after the little sh..t was growling at you earlier john)

[Cassandra]

[marcella]

Kirsty is his 4th, and forever mum

[kirsty]

Oh Cassandra,

Dodge is the White one leaving bob to be the black and tan

Dodge loves collies, they are quick and agile and he loves to chase, and be chased. Dale and him are the best of buddies.

[Janice]

dale loves being with Dodge His idea of doggy heaven is playing chase with the big boys. Dodge is a lovely dog. You've done a great job with him.

I thought prong collars sounded awful but now I've seen one they make sense. Its a lot better than being pulled under a bus.
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Janice and Dale

[Sam]

Well done Kirsty !

I think your a star, and if a pronged collar makes the difference between your dog being put to sleep because of his dog aggression ( an lets face it, that ain't a sin in dog terms ) and him living out the rest of his days with you , then its worth every penny.

Much better than seeing a women being dragged about like a rag doll on the end of a lead, not being able to control her large dog. You know what , even if tou had had him from pup, that don't mean to say he would have been dog tolerant.


Sam
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Damn dags.