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Nicola Guest
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: Cesar Millan - My thoughts. |
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John,
I've watched most of the Cesar Millan discs, including "People Training for Dogs". I really enjoyed them.
I've come to realise I already practice some of his methods. Here are some examples:
Molly and Roxy almost always get fed after the "hunt" (the walk), making them wait for their food. They don't get fed as soon as I get up in the morning. When they do get fed, I make them sit and stay before giving it to them. As if they were in a pack, they would hunt for their food, which means they have to wait for their food.
When we go out for a walk, the "hunt", and they're on a lead, they always walk beside me, and occasionally they will walk behind me on the way back from the walk (probably because they are a bit tired!). I rarely use flexi leads, I much prefer normal leads.
Molly walks perfectly beside me on lead. At first, Roxy would pull away on ahead. I use a material combi collar on Roxy, and have it high up on her neck, just below her ears (this is the way Cesar Millan prefers to use them, I have gathered). She now walks nicely beside me and Molly. Although, I think Molly has a lot to do with Roxy walking beside us.
As Cesar explains, if the dogs are ahead of you, then they can believe they are the leaders of the pack, even if they are not dominant dogs.
When I first watched his programmes, I thought he was so full of himself, I still do, actually. I don't always like his roughness towards the dogs, although, for example, in a Pit Bulls case it can sometimes mean life or death for other dogs.
There is no doubt he gets results in most cases, and his understanding of dog psychology is very deep.
All in all, I found the way he deals with dogs and owners very interesting, and would watch more of his work. |
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John Thomson Site Admin
Joined: 07 Apr 2007 Posts: 4780 Location: Cumbernauld
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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I agree Nicola that things are a little over the top for US TV
But in the main I like what he does..........but as with everything I take from it what I can.
There is no doubt about it he loves what he does......look at his rescue centre........very few perfect pure bred dogs in there!
I found his book to be a good read......illegal immigrant who came into the US with no money and no English.......worked as a groomer......got a reputation for being able to handle dominant dogs and it went from there.
I like the way he works with what he has....only once did I see him recommend a prong and I have to say I thought it was a good decision... _________________ John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk |
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Phoebe High Post Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 329 Location: Luggiebank, Cumbernauld
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I am very sceptic about Cesar Milan. I think a lot of the things he says aren´t confirmed by canine psychologists.
For example, look at a wolves pack, it´s very rarely the leader who walks at the front. The alpha walks in the middle or mostly in the back and gives the signals from there. The risk to loose the leader would be far to high, if he would walk ahead.
I think Cesar might have big successes with very dominant dogs, but not every dog is dominant! It´s a fairytale that every dog tries to ascent to be the leader sooner or later. Just a few dogs are natural leaders and another few, would replace the alpha if it is not able to accomplish it´s job, but most dogs are absolutely fine with their position in the pack and have other issues than just dominance.
Don´t get me wrong, I don´t want to run people down who like him. It´s every ones personal choice. I just think that dominance is not the ultimate solution for every problem. _________________ "It is possible to live without a dog, but it is not worth it."
Heinz Rühmann |
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marcella Guest
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Phoebe wrote: |
but not every dog is dominant! |
I agree. For example, your very own Sony is a fearful wee soul and not at all dominant. Being overly firm with her would not accomplish much. In my opinion she needs a different approach. I still believe that you should not pander to nervous dogs as this does reinforce their fears, but instead a calm and consistent leader is what she needs.
I think through time she will get better. She's such a lovely dog and who knows what her life was like before you got her. I think both you and Marco are doing a great job and she's lucky to have you. |
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Phoebe High Post Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 329 Location: Luggiebank, Cumbernauld
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Marcella ,
but also in general I think leadership is more about clear and consistent communication and bonding with all members of the pack. _________________ "It is possible to live without a dog, but it is not worth it."
Heinz Rühmann |
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Nicola Guest
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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marcella wrote: |
Phoebe wrote: |
but not every dog is dominant! |
I agree. For example, your very own Sony is a fearful wee soul and not at all dominant. Being overly firm with her would not accomplish much. In my opinion she needs a different approach. I still believe that you should not pander to nervous dogs as this does reinforce their fears, but instead a calm and consistent leader is what she needs.
I think through time she will get better. She's such a lovely dog and who knows what her life was like before you got her. I think both you and Marco are doing a great job and she's lucky to have you. |
Marcella,
I agree with this 100%.
Another thing that Cesar Millan explained was that we should not "nurture unstable minds" - which, in our terms, means don't fuss over and pander to a dog who is nervous/frightened/anxious etc, as that just reinforces that they are behaving in an appropriate way for the situation they are in, and that there is something to be nervous/frightened anxious about.
When he was explaining this, a clip was shown of what I think was a shorthaired Hungarian Vizla. This dog was cowering in it's bed, being very submissive and growling and snarling. While the dog was in this state, someone went over to the dog and comforted it by stroking it's head and talking to it, thus confirming what I have mentioned above. |
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Nicola Guest
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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John Thomson wrote: |
I agree Nicola that things are a little over the top for US TV
But in the main I like what he does..........but as with everything I take from it what I can.
There is no doubt about it he loves what he does......look at his rescue centre........very few perfect pure bred dogs in there!
I found his book to be a good read......illegal immigrant who came into the US with no money and no English.......worked as a groomer......got a reputation for being able to handle dominant dogs and it went from there.
I like the way he works with what he has....only once did I see him recommend a prong and I have to say I thought it was a good decision... |
John,
Some of it is rather over the top. The episode which stands out in my mind was Emily, the Pit Bull. As Cesar said, this dog's mental state was totally unbalanced and she didn't know how to behave around other dogs - not the dogs fault, of course, it seems that she wasn't socialised very well and wasn't getting enough excercise.
I found his "Red Zone" theory to be interesting aswell! Emily was indeed a "Red Zone" case, through no fault of her own.
I didn't know that he went to the US as an illegal immigrant and turned himself to dog grooming! Very interesting.
As you say, it's about taking what you want from his methods in order to improve the life of our own dogs. |
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